Pyjamas

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Les Vogel on October 20, 2009 at 2:06pm

Looks interesting, and a good way to teach Python, but for production, I'd focus on GWT as you've got lots of Google engineers working on it.

Also, as Google pointed out in one of the I/O keynotes, it's a good idea to use GWT Top of Trunk as that's what the Google Engineers do. (Bugs get fixed fast that way)

Permalink Reply by Vern Takebayashi on October 21, 2009 at 2:14pm

Les,

I agree that GWT will always have the latest and greatest. I just think that it may be easier to start with Pyjamas (if you don't know Java), and move to GWT when you realize you need the latest and best features. I am pretty impressed with how much of GWT has been ported to Pyjamas, but that could easily be because I don't have much experience with GWT directly.

I am teaching a Web Programming course in the Spring semester, that will mainly focus on PHP. Do you think that it would be worthwhile to also introduce GWT (as the students should have taken both Python and Java at that point)? If so, would you go the GWT route or the Pyjamas route (keeping in mind this will be a relatively small part of the course - maybe two weeks). I may also go into Ruby on Rails just to show an alternative to PHP.

Thanks,

Vern

Les Vogel said:

Looks interesting, and a good way to teach Python, but for production, I'd focus on GWT as you've got lots of Google engineers working on it.

Also, as Google pointed out in one of the I/O keynotes, it's a good idea to use GWT Top of Trunk as that's what the Google Engineers do. (Bugs get fixed fast that way)

Permalink Reply by Les Vogel on October 21, 2009 at 3:51pm

The only reason to teach PHP is for work purposes. (#1 language in Job Openings). But it isn't really that respected in the community. Both Python and Java are, however. Someone who could quickly put together sites using Google's AppEngine would be employable quickly. That would argue for Pyjamas. As it's a bit trickier to get the GWT working there.

Permalink Reply by Konstantin A Lukin on October 22, 2009 at 8:21pm

If I was a student taking a Web Development class, I'd probably want to get an overview of PHP, since it is so popular. I would also like to build a simple app using Python, since it is pretty cool :) While at it, deploying it on AppEngine is simple, free and also sounds like fun :)

If this class also gives me a GWT overview, that would be great! GWT probably is the most complex to learn, so getting an overview of main features, like building simple UI, an RPC call, adding styles, creating a Composite widget, creating a stand-alone module, etc... would already be a lot of info..

Pyjamas sounds like a good alternative.. easing learning curve, but still grasping main concepts at the same time. Just don't know much about it.. but with GWT, one can probably allocate a full semester grasping its main features and design patterns :)

Hope this help.

Permalink Reply by Konstantin A Lukin on October 22, 2009 at 8:38pm

Les Vogel said:

Also, as Google pointed out in one of the I/O keynotes, it's a good idea to use GWT Top of Trunk as that's what the Google Engineers do. (Bugs get fixed fast that way)

We've been developing GWT a good bit, and are quite happy with their release versions.
(We did not have the need to get top of trunk)

Overall, we've found GWT to be pretty stable. We've used a good part of its widgets along with other frameworks. There are some bugs here and there, so there are work-arounds.. A very enjoyable environment for web development, especially for non-trivial projects.

Permalink Reply by Vern Takebayashi on October 23, 2009 at 10:36am

Thanks for the feedback. In my course, I will definitely cover PHP for the reasons you folks have mentioned, plus I want to make sure the students learn the basics of PDO (and PDO's usefulness in avoiding certain injection attacks). At this point, I am still trying to decide if I should introduce Ruby on Rails (I could do in about 2 weeks), GWT in Python and Java (maybe 3 weeks starting with the Pyjamas route), or Google App Engine using Python (probably not Java). The plus for using Google App Engine would be that the students could point to their app as part of their "portfolio" of what they have done. But, this would mean that I have to devote more time to this topic (maybe 4-5 weeks).

Any of those topics (Ruby on Rails, GWT, GAE) could easily be a semester course by themselves, but our curriculum does not currently have room for that. I would like to show students how to use Adobe Flex for the front-end of a database, but I don't really have room in the class for that either.

Thanks for your ideas.