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I was just on the HireNet Hawaii website (www.hirenethawaii.com) and searching for computer related job postings.  After searching their site for computer and mathematics jobs, the first posting listed is from a company called PRTech which is some how connected with PacRim Marketing Group.  Here is the job description:

 

Involved in the programming aspects of web-based projects in the areas of ecommerce, online registration, e-mailing, survey systems, online reporting and analysis tools and development of other proprietary web based applications for Asian end-users -- Japanese, Korean, or Chinese. Write programs and database integration for web applications, online forms, directories, online reports and other store and retrieve applications using ASP, ASP.NET and SQL database. Development and technical integration of web based programming elements with XHTML design elements, XHTML design templates, formatting, layout and configuration, and troubleshoot reported problems and bugs in web-based applications, identify problem source, debug an directly resolve the issue or coordinate with other programmers

 

Experience with ASP, ASP.Net, Java Script, XHTML, CSS Stylesheets, SQL Server 2000/2005, ADOBE Dreamweaver, Visual Studio 2005, Database Experience Required.

 

Their site says they want someone with a BS. in CIS or CS with 2+ years experience.  Now for the pay they are offering ... drum roll please... bpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbp....... $7.75 and it seems per hour...

 

Am I living in the wrong place?  Things like this make me ashamed to say I live in Hawaii.  I mean come on now even a bagger at Safeway makes more than $7.75/hr.  That is just ridiculous, shameful, and down right appalling.

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12 years ago, I was making $163k / year at Apple (it was a pay cut from what I ddi before) + 75k stock. 10 years ago, I made $200k.

My interns at Apple were paid 60k. I used to pay 80k-$120k for mid level folks and train them for their next job. One is a Sr. Director at Yahoo, another helped create the iPod, I haven't followed the others.

I guess I've always viewed Software Engineering as part of IT.
Hmmm... 10-12 years ago weren't we right in the middle to the tail end of the DotCom craze. Even though I was not in the tech field at that time I do remember the stratospheric salaries of software developers and regretted not having finished my degree. Those salary promises is what prompted me to go back to school in 1999. Then there was the DotCom crash where lots of companies lost money and lost of people lost their jobs. I think the IT field is finally leveling off and reasonable salaries are becoming apparent.

I think $50-60K for a recent grad is a fair salary. You mention interns at Apple making 60k and mid-levels were paid $80-120k. Well maybe that should be a standard for large successful companies like Apple, Microsoft, Google, etc. Its just that we don't have those types of companies here in Hawaii. In fact most of the companies here in Hawaii are start-ups I believe unless you are planning to do software development for an already large company ,like HMSA, that is not a tech company.

My wish for Hawaii is for it to one day have a successful tech company build a campus like the headquarters of Google and Microsoft. The company could be a Hawaii start-up that finds success or an already successful company builds a satellite campus here.

Les Vogel said:
12 years ago, I was making $163k / year at Apple (it was a pay cut from what I ddi before) + 75k stock. 10 years ago, I made $200k.

My interns at Apple were paid 60k. I used to pay 80k-$120k for mid level folks and train them for their next job. One is a Sr. Director at Yahoo, another helped create the iPod, I haven't followed the others.

I guess I've always viewed Software Engineering as part of IT.
I don't think comparing dot.com era salaries to current ones makes much sense. There were all sorts of ridiculous jobs going around then, people getting BMWs and apartments, etc as long as they had the right buzzwords on their resume.
I would like to add an experience I had at my first company right after graduating UH.
I took a IT Support Job with a Local construction company that would better be described as a Sys admin position. I was right out of college and I remember during my interview the IT manager saying "Hawaii jobs pay less than mainland jobs". I was very green and took a really low salary offer, cause what did I know back then. After a few months I was basically MOTU after the sys admin quit. About a year later we brought in a new guy. After he quit within the first 2 months and I found out he was making 60K. He was no better than I was and his job title was the same. So you can imagine how stupid I felt after all the hard work and 60hr work weeks I put in. When I brought this up to the manager his only response was that I should be more humble and wait for pay raises, not ask for one. So I shut up, worked for another year and eventually decided to leave.

My point is, I have personally seen this excuse in action. It really boils down to how much the employer thinks they can take advantage of you. They will fish for someone by making low-ball offers instead of paying a fair rate. Eventually someone with accept. Really, all this leads to is unmotivated, non-loyal employees, and a high turnover rate in my opinion. I believe if you take care of your employees you have a better chance to have a successful company or department. Unless you are hurting financially I would stand strong by your salary requirement. If you think you should make 65K/yr and everyone is only offering you 45K year then you are either applying for the wrong companies or you have not convinced them you are worth that amount. If you are a hard worker then show it.
I am going through this same process as you and all I can say is don't give up and don't sell yourself short. Eventually you will find a position you like.
In general, tech jobs at non-tech companies (like construction) are going to pay less and be less rewarding. In a non-tech company, tech people are often viewed as an expensive, overhead, a necessary cost. In a tech company, tech people are generally seen as revenue generating and a core asset. I am not saying this is a perfect contrast but this seems to hold throughout the world, not just Hawaii.

Perhaps this is more severe in Hawaii where it is likely that a higher percentage of tech jobs are at non-tech companies.

Jake G. said:
I would like to add an experience I had at my first company right after graduating UH.
I took a IT Support Job with a Local construction company that would better be described as a Sys admin position. I was right out of college and I remember during my interview the IT manager saying "Hawaii jobs pay less than mainland jobs". I was very green and took a really low salary offer, cause what did I know back then. After a few months I was basically MOTU after the sys admin quit. About a year later we brought in a new guy. After he quit within the first 2 months and I found out he was making 60K. He was no better than I was and his job title was the same. So you can imagine how stupid I felt after all the hard work and 60hr work weeks I put in. When I brought this up to the manager his only response was that I should be more humble and wait for pay raises, not ask for one. So I shut up, worked for another year and eventually decided to leave.

My point is, I have personally seen this excuse in action. It really boils down to how much the employer thinks they can take advantage of you. They will fish for someone by making low-ball offers instead of paying a fair rate. Eventually someone with accept. Really, all this leads to is unmotivated, non-loyal employees, and a high turnover rate in my opinion. I believe if you take care of your employees you have a better chance to have a successful company or department. Unless you are hurting financially I would stand strong by your salary requirement. If you think you should make 65K/yr and everyone is only offering you 45K year then you are either applying for the wrong companies or you have not convinced them you are worth that amount. If you are a hard worker then show it.
I am going through this same process as you and all I can say is don't give up and don't sell yourself short. Eventually you will find a position you like.
Jake G. and John, I think you guys have hit my point right on the nose. Companies in Hawaii do know take advantage of their employees and use the excuse of this is Hawaii and thus salaries here are just lower than the mainland. Yes, it is the NON-tech companies that are doing that. I have noticed the tech companies here are trying to solidify the standards but there aren't enough of them and none of them are successful enough to be very well known except within the tech community.

What Hawaii needs is a tech company to explode with success like a Google, eBay, Amazon, and a few smaller successful companies like Zappos. With successful and well known tech companies in Hawaii, it will force all companies to almost match the salaries and treatment of their tech employees for fear they will just leave and go work for one of those successful tech companies.
I hate to burst your bubble, but if Hawaii did generate a company as successful as Google, et al, it would be forced to relocate to the mainland. There is no way you could hire enough engineers in Hawaii. In the four years after Google's IPO they went from a little over 2,000 employees to over 16,000 employees. The supply isn't here locally and it is virtually impossible to pull those kinds of numbers from the mainland.

Jared Cheung said:
What Hawaii needs is a tech company to explode with success like a Google, eBay, Amazon, and a few smaller successful companies like Zappos. With successful and well known tech companies in Hawaii, it will force all companies to almost match the salaries and treatment of their tech employees for fear they will just leave and go work for one of those successful tech companies.
Well not all large companies had the explosive expansion as Google did. A couple successful companies like Zappos would do the job just as well. Now I mean companies that are not dependent on government contracts which is what a lot of the start-ups here seem to be dependent upon. We need a couple of tech Hawaii tech companies to make it big with their own idea and product.

David Jacobs said:
I hate to burst your bubble, but if Hawaii did generate a company as successful as Google, et al, it would be forced to relocate to the mainland. There is no way you could hire enough engineers in Hawaii. In the four years after Google's IPO they went from a little over 2,000 employees to over 16,000 employees. The supply isn't here locally and it is virtually impossible to pull those kinds of numbers from the mainland.
Jared, I am with about the need and value of establishing a critical mass. Even if we had a few tech companies with 100+ employees, profitable and not dependent on the local/military market, that would be great catalyst for a sustainable and robust tech sector. That being said, it seems to be a long unclear road even to that point.

Jared Cheung said:
Well not all large companies had the explosive expansion as Google did. A couple successful companies like Zappos would do the job just as well. Now I mean companies that are not dependent on government contracts which is what a lot of the start-ups here seem to be dependent upon. We need a couple of tech Hawaii tech companies to make it big with their own idea and product.
We need a first rate engineering university to make that happen. U of H used to be great in the 70's & 80's, don't know how hot it is these days. US News puts engineering at 12 of 100, not bad.

Don't know where they are for EE or CS. I've met a lot of very smart folks, but none who were associated with U of H. (I'm not saying they aren't there, just haven't met them.) Hawaii used to be the leading edge for network research. AlohaNet lead to TCP/IP.
I think the fact that everytime someone brings this up the ONLY significant thing people can mention is AlohaNet (~40 years ago) pretty much describes the state of tech research here.

Les Vogel said:
Don't know where they are for EE or CS. I've met a lot of very smart folks, but none who were associated with U of H. (I'm not saying they aren't there, just haven't met them.) Hawaii used to be the leading edge for network research. AlohaNet lead to TCP/IP.
Les Vogel said:
US News puts engineering at 12 of 100, not bad.


Les, could you link what you're referring to here?

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