Comments - "Islands at Risk - GMO's in Hawai'i" - TechHui2024-03-29T00:44:54Zhttp://www.techhui.com/profiles/comment/feed?attachedTo=1702911%3ABlogPost%3A58159&xn_auth=noTerra Preta is fascinating. T…tag:www.techhui.com,2010-04-12:1702911:Comment:596432010-04-12T18:35:12.205ZTroy Benjegerdeshttp://www.techhui.com/profile/TroyBenjegerdes
Terra Preta is fascinating. There's a very compelling argument ( <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_use_of_fire" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_use_of_fire</a> ) that the topsoil that makes Iowa some of the best farmland in the world is because of carbon in the soil from fire. There's a good possibility it came from natural fires, and then earthworms moved the char from fires into the soil over hundreds (or thousands) of years. The above…
Terra Preta is fascinating. There's a very compelling argument ( <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_use_of_fire" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_use_of_fire</a> ) that the topsoil that makes Iowa some of the best farmland in the world is because of carbon in the soil from fire. There's a good possibility it came from natural fires, and then earthworms moved the char from fires into the soil over hundreds (or thousands) of years. The above wikipedia article indicates the Native Americans intentionally burned the prairies, which seems more likely. Iowa is currently one of the largest areas of anthropogenically modified land, with at least 75% of the state planted in row-crop agriculture.. And it's likely been that way before european settlers arrived.. just not quite of the same intensity.<br />
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So instead of talking about making cellulosic-derived fuels from sugarcane, sweet sorghum, and other biomass, we should be taking that carbon stock, and making slow-burn char, and putting it into Hawai'i's cinders, and building new *black* soil. Speaking of poor soil conditi…tag:www.techhui.com,2010-04-11:1702911:Comment:595022010-04-11T19:31:21.891ZKonstantin A Lukinhttp://www.techhui.com/profile/KonstantinLukin
Speaking of poor soil conditions, I recently came across a couple of videos on <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_preta" target="_blank">Terra Preta</a> (literally “black earth” in Portuguese), which is basically a charcoal enriched soil. Interestingly enough, patches of Terra Preta have been found in the Amazonian jungle, linking it to possible prior civil developments of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_City_of_Z" target="_blank">The Lost City of Z</a>, vividly described by…
Speaking of poor soil conditions, I recently came across a couple of videos on <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_preta" target="_blank">Terra Preta</a> (literally “black earth” in Portuguese), which is basically a charcoal enriched soil. Interestingly enough, patches of Terra Preta have been found in the Amazonian jungle, linking it to possible prior civil developments of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_City_of_Z" target="_blank">The Lost City of Z</a>, vividly described by a Portuguese explorer (Bandeirante) who wrote that he visited the city in 1753. It also looks like there is an upcoming movie, called <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lost_City_of_Z_(film)" target="_blank">The Lost City of Z</a>, starring Brad Pitt, which could be an interesting interpretation of the Amazonian city legend and especially how they managed to survive in jungle conditions.<br />
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Anyway, here is one video that demonstrates what Terra Preta is in today's reality:<br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQyRAHc7uhw" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQyRAHc7uhw</a> On this, I absolutely agree.…tag:www.techhui.com,2010-04-04:1702911:Comment:590862010-04-04T08:21:03.802ZDaniel Leuckhttp://www.techhui.com/profile/dleuck
On this, I absolutely agree. The onus should be on the entity growing the GMO crops to prevent contamination. Many courts have created very bad case law in this area. Its time for legislation to correct this problem.<br />
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<blockquote>Brian Russo: There are a number of legal issues that have not caught up.. for example currently if I'm a farmer and you're a farmer.. and your Monsanto Roundup Ready seed pollutes mine (by the simple fact that they're next to each other.. pollen and other transport…</blockquote>
On this, I absolutely agree. The onus should be on the entity growing the GMO crops to prevent contamination. Many courts have created very bad case law in this area. Its time for legislation to correct this problem.<br />
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<blockquote>Brian Russo: There are a number of legal issues that have not caught up.. for example currently if I'm a farmer and you're a farmer.. and your Monsanto Roundup Ready seed pollutes mine (by the simple fact that they're next to each other.. pollen and other transport mechanisms) - the burden of evidence is on me.
This simply isn't reasonable for me to have take active steps to avoid your 'pollution' of my property - and ALSO have to legally defend myself against a multinational such as Monsanto.</blockquote> Daniel Leuck: This is an ad h…tag:www.techhui.com,2010-04-02:1702911:Comment:590292010-04-02T15:35:15.252ZKonstantin A Lukinhttp://www.techhui.com/profile/KonstantinLukin
<blockquote>Daniel Leuck: This is an ad hominem argument - an attack on the arguer rather than the argument</blockquote>
@Dan: please do not interpret this as a personal attack. I am simply trying to understand general patterns that are at play in order to gravitate towards a most optimal solution.<br />
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<blockquote>For the record, I have a very deep appreciation for natural habitats, and Hawaii in particular. I make my small contribution through support of my local coop and participation in…</blockquote>
<blockquote>Daniel Leuck: This is an ad hominem argument - an attack on the arguer rather than the argument</blockquote>
@Dan: please do not interpret this as a personal attack. I am simply trying to understand general patterns that are at play in order to gravitate towards a most optimal solution.<br />
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<blockquote>For the record, I have a very deep appreciation for natural habitats, and Hawaii in particular. I make my small contribution through support of my local coop and participation in activities such as river cleanups.</blockquote>
This is great. I think we should strive towards getting more & more involved, making local communities better places to live.<br />
<blockquote>I'm not arguing that GMOs shouldn't be carefully regulated - they should, but it doesn't help the cause to imply Hawaii has been ravaged by GMOs. Its simply not true.</blockquote>
I do not know how much impact GMOs already had on Hawaii's ecosystem, but I think similar discussions can help us understand where we are at and what should be done.<br />
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<blockquote>Its also not good to characterize those who advocate responsible use as not caring about the environment. Many uses of GMOs are for the betterment of the environment, such as production of high lipid content algae to create biofuel alternatives for the fossil fuels that are causing great damage to the environment. This is one of many examples of the application of genetic engineering for the betterment of people and their environments.</blockquote>
Yes! Let's focus on <i>green</i> GMO applications, such as the one mentioned, and drop harmful/for-profit GMOs, such as Monsanto's corn example. Let's have strict regulations that do not allow corporate sector to conduct harmful/unpredictable experiments on local communities. Let's conduct local GMO awareness workshops, where <u>green</u> GMOs are better explained to local communities. Let's collect public opinions on how comfortable we are with implementing proposed GMO projects.<br />
The only reason why GMOs are so bashed is because public is <u>afraid</u> of how this can affect the ecosystem as well as personal health. The best cure for fear is <u>knowledge</u> of what is and what is not.<br />
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<blockquote>if someone is being irresponsible with GMO corn seed research in Hawaii, it will likely quickly end up in Iowa..</blockquote>
Precisely. Everything is interconnected in this way. That is why it is of prime importance to focus on local communities. If everyone has a responsible approach, collectively we have a responsible society.<br />
Science & Technology is a very powerful tool, which can create as well as destroy. It is our job to direct this power in the most optimal way to benefit <u>all</u> of Earth's inhabitants. If we fail at this, our very habitat is at stake. Is this really a discussion a…tag:www.techhui.com,2010-04-02:1702911:Comment:590282010-04-02T14:07:03.645ZTroy Benjegerdeshttp://www.techhui.com/profile/TroyBenjegerdes
Is this really a discussion about GMO's, or a discussion about big multinational corporations vs local farmers? What if, instead of local organic farmers suing Monsanto to block roundup-ready alfalfa because of impacts to their organic operations, we had Wal-Mart suing local open-source GMO algae biofuel developers because of potential impact to Wal-Mart's ability to sell organic kelp food products?<br />
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If we applied open-source to genetically modified organisms, how would you regulate it? The…
Is this really a discussion about GMO's, or a discussion about big multinational corporations vs local farmers? What if, instead of local organic farmers suing Monsanto to block roundup-ready alfalfa because of impacts to their organic operations, we had Wal-Mart suing local open-source GMO algae biofuel developers because of potential impact to Wal-Mart's ability to sell organic kelp food products?<br />
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If we applied open-source to genetically modified organisms, how would you regulate it? The biggest problem with GMO's is the market is entirely one-sided. Large corporations have an effective monopoly on GMO development, largely because they are the only ones that can deal with the regulations. Something quite close to home…tag:www.techhui.com,2010-04-01:1702911:Comment:590032010-04-01T05:37:08.044ZTroy Benjegerdeshttp://www.techhui.com/profile/TroyBenjegerdes
Something quite close to home for me... if someone is being irresponsible with GMO corn seed research in Hawaii, it will likely quickly end up in Iowa..<br />
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<a href="http://corncommentary.com/2009/09/23/hawaii-corners-the-seed-corn-market/" target="_blank">http://corncommentary.com/2009/09/23/hawaii-corners-the-seed-corn-market/</a><br />
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It would be a strange turn of events to have corn seed growers lobbying for the same standards in hawaii as on the mainland. They have the most to lose if their seeds…
Something quite close to home for me... if someone is being irresponsible with GMO corn seed research in Hawaii, it will likely quickly end up in Iowa..<br />
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<a href="http://corncommentary.com/2009/09/23/hawaii-corners-the-seed-corn-market/" target="_blank">http://corncommentary.com/2009/09/23/hawaii-corners-the-seed-corn-market/</a><br />
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It would be a strange turn of events to have corn seed growers lobbying for the same standards in hawaii as on the mainland. They have the most to lose if their seeds get compromised. Konstantin A Lukin: I think t…tag:www.techhui.com,2010-03-31:1702911:Comment:589932010-03-31T17:57:16.312ZDaniel Leuckhttp://www.techhui.com/profile/dleuck
<blockquote>Konstantin A Lukin: I think this discussion mostly gravitates towards a separation between those who have authentic appreciation for natural habitats and those who are willing to jeopardize that for a scientific gain.</blockquote>
This is an <i>ad hominem argument</i> - an attack on the arguer rather than the argument. For the record, I have a very deep appreciation for natural habitats, and Hawaii in particular. I make my small contribution through support of my local coop and…
<blockquote>Konstantin A Lukin: I think this discussion mostly gravitates towards a separation between those who have authentic appreciation for natural habitats and those who are willing to jeopardize that for a scientific gain.</blockquote>
This is an <i>ad hominem argument</i> - an attack on the arguer rather than the argument. For the record, I have a very deep appreciation for natural habitats, and Hawaii in particular. I make my small contribution through support of my local coop and participation in activities such as river cleanups.<br />
Hawaii's ecosystems, like many other island ecosystems, have been ravaged by foreign species, not by GMOs. I'm not arguing that GMOs shouldn't be carefully regulated - they should, but it doesn't help the cause to imply Hawaii has been ravaged by GMOs. Its simply not true. Its also not good to characterize those who advocate responsible use as not caring about the environment. Many uses of GMOs are for the betterment of the environment, such as production of high lipid content algae to create biofuel alternatives for the fossil fuels that <i>are</i> causing great damage to the environment. This is one of many examples of the application of genetic engineering for the betterment of people and their environments. I think this discussion mostl…tag:www.techhui.com,2010-03-31:1702911:Comment:589922010-03-31T17:56:21.979ZKonstantin A Lukinhttp://www.techhui.com/profile/KonstantinLukin
I think this discussion mostly gravitates towards a separation between those who have authentic appreciation for natural habitats and those who are willing to jeopardize that for a scientific gain.<br />
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Cross-breeding has been done since a long time, the difference is that it had time to adapt. The way GMOs are currently handled is irresponsible.<br />
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<blockquote>GMOs are with us. They will not go away, and they will become more prevalent in all aspects of our life.</blockquote>
Not if we start…
I think this discussion mostly gravitates towards a separation between those who have authentic appreciation for natural habitats and those who are willing to jeopardize that for a scientific gain.<br />
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Cross-breeding has been done since a long time, the difference is that it had time to adapt. The way GMOs are currently handled is irresponsible.<br />
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<blockquote>GMOs are with us. They will not go away, and they will become more prevalent in all aspects of our life.</blockquote>
Not if we start educating the public about sustainability and other forms of farming, GMOs will soon begin to loose their luster.<br />
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<blockquote>Its good to have watchdogs and fight for sensible regulation</blockquote>
I think it is much better to have local communities be less dependent on outside influences and focus more in their local environments.<br />
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<blockquote>but unilaterally opposing all genetic engineering because we are "manipulating nature" or "doing things that are unnatural" doesn't make any sense to me.</blockquote>
This is a religious argument. I think whatever brings a long-term good for the community is the winning combination, not a generalized opposition.<br />
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<blockquote>You could make the same arguments about taking penicillin.</blockquote>
The key difference here is that penicillin does not dilute environmental gene pool with man-made DNA strands, GMOs do.<br />
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<blockquote>I agree, but that is almost entirely due to the introduction of foreign species, deforestation and irresponsible farming practices. It has nothing to do with GMOs.</blockquote>
There are numerous articles that go over GMO dangers, here is one: <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/12/monsantos-gmo-corn-linked_n_420365.html" target="_blank">Monsanto's GMO Corn Linked To Organ Failure, Study Reveals</a>. I believe Monsanto has an office on Maui. I've also heard they are leaders in GMO research, and they have constant problems with local farmers. Shouldn't local efforts be united with scientific research to produce results that are widely accepted by the local community? (and not act forcefully against it) Mark Enomoto: Hawaii's ecosys…tag:www.techhui.com,2010-03-31:1702911:Comment:589842010-03-31T10:19:19.980ZDaniel Leuckhttp://www.techhui.com/profile/dleuck
<blockquote>Mark Enomoto: Hawaii's ecosystem and all ecosystems have evolved over millions of years yet have been screwed up in a fraction of that time due to the impact of humans.</blockquote>
Aloha Mark. I agree, but that is almost entirely due to the introduction of foreign species, deforestation and irresponsible farming practices. It has nothing to do with GMOs.
<blockquote>Mark Enomoto: Hawaii's ecosystem and all ecosystems have evolved over millions of years yet have been screwed up in a fraction of that time due to the impact of humans.</blockquote>
Aloha Mark. I agree, but that is almost entirely due to the introduction of foreign species, deforestation and irresponsible farming practices. It has nothing to do with GMOs. Aloha TechHuiians!
Regarding…tag:www.techhui.com,2010-03-31:1702911:Comment:589832010-03-31T09:56:59.727ZRubén Peñahttp://www.techhui.com/profile/RubenPena
Aloha TechHuiians!<br />
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Regarding Mark Enomoto's comments ..... "Here, Here!!" I opt for taking the side of scientific caution in the face of the immediately & historically unknown regarding GMO's.<br />
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Rubén
Aloha TechHuiians!<br />
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Regarding Mark Enomoto's comments ..... "Here, Here!!" I opt for taking the side of scientific caution in the face of the immediately & historically unknown regarding GMO's.<br />
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Rubén