Teenage startups---they don't even have Furlough Fridays !!! - TechHui2024-03-29T09:15:37Zhttp://www.techhui.com/forum/topics/teenage-startupsthey-dont-even?commentId=1702911%3AComment%3A61332&feed=yes&xn_auth=noBrian said:Derek - "Most high…tag:www.techhui.com,2010-05-13:1702911:Comment:613602010-05-13T18:54:25.726ZDerekhttp://www.techhui.com/profile/Derek
<cite>Brian said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.techhui.com/forum/topics/teenage-startupsthey-dont-even?xg_source=activity&id=1702911%3ATopic%3A61309&page=2#1702911Comment61353"><div>Derek - "Most high-school aged teens do not demonstrate an interest in launching a start-up." Probably not most, but more than you'd think. Do you work with teens? I do and a lot are more industrious than you may think. However the ones that want to start their own businesses are almost invariably…</div>
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<cite>Brian said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.techhui.com/forum/topics/teenage-startupsthey-dont-even?xg_source=activity&id=1702911%3ATopic%3A61309&page=2#1702911Comment61353"><div>Derek - "Most high-school aged teens do not demonstrate an interest in launching a start-up." Probably not most, but more than you'd think. Do you work with teens? I do and a lot are more industrious than you may think. However the ones that want to start their own businesses are almost invariably those with the fewest opportunities.</div>
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Aloha Brian. Thank you for your continued dialogue. In response to your question, I do work with teens. My most recent work was with the junior class at Ke Kula Kaiapuni o Anuenue in Palolo Valley over the course of 4-5 weeks in March - April. For next school year I'll actually be starting a much larger mentoring program where we mentor teens from their freshmen year through Senior year in high school with the goal of encouraging and inspiring them to apply to and enroll in college. After doing that for about a year, we're hoping to start the program earlier to 7th and 8th graders.<br />
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A careful review of my statement indicates that I never suggested teens weren't industrious. I'm sure you'll agree that there are many more industrious teens than there are teens who will actually pursue a start-up.<br />
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The nice thing here is, that we're actually in agreement Brian. John emphasized the favoritism that Diane Keng is getting in her role of her start-up and the funding she received from her father. I, on the other hand, emphasized the decision-making, ambition, and "industrious-ness" of the teenager described in the article. This is evidenced by John's question to me, "why do you stress that this person has an 'innate' drive and ambition?"<br />
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Much like the teens you work with, Diane Keng is ambitious, industrious, and fortunately for her, she is one of the few with access to capital. I don't think you and I are in disagreement about that.<br />
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My main point however was counter to John's assertion that there is nothing in the news story that "Hawaii should emulate or praise." I think there is a general theme in the news story that is being overlooked. "I think what can be praised and emulated is the entrepreneurial culture of Silicon Valley."<br />
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What I'm liking increasingly more about this particular thread is that, I think we're all generally in agreement.<br />
<cite>John said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.techhui.com/forum/topics/teenage-startupsthey-dont-even?id=1702911%3ATopic%3A61309&page=2#1702911Comment61348"><div>What makes the Valley thrive in technology is the critical mass of successful profitable technology companies. This is what motivates schools to teach tech startups. This is what gives people born in Mountain View an 'unfair' advantage. ... We have to do things to build the sector on our own that we can do with our own resources and capabilities.</div>
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A thriving and supportive entrepreneurial culture helps to produce thriving entrepreneurs, much like healthy lifestyles produce healthy people.<br />
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My only regret in this discussion is not better articulating and contextualizing an earlier comment I made,<br />
<cite>I said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.techhui.com/forum/topics/teenage-startupsthey-dont-even?id=1702911%3ATopic%3A61309&page=1#1702911Comment61332"><div><cite>I think what can be praised and emulated is the entrepreneurial culture of Silicon Valley. I think we can emulate a high school curriculum that encourages entrepreneurial activity, offers business classes that include marketing and finance, and connects students with business leaders.</cite></div>
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I was not trying to suggest that a newly-introduced high school curriculum would kick-start or lead to a thriving entrepreneurial culture that would eventually also save our public school system. To clarify, I support developing our current entrepreneurial culture of which a by-product of that culture could be a high school curriculum that encourages entrepreneurial activity. A large part of developing that thriving entrepreneurial culture was articulated by John,<br />
<cite>John said:</cite></cite><blockquote cite="http://www.techhui.com/forum/topics/teenage-startupsthey-dont-even?id=1702911%3ATopic%3A61309&page=2#1702911Comment61348"><div>We have to do things to build the sector on our own that we can do with our own resources and capabilities.</div>
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There are, in my opinion, other elements of building this culture that we haven't mentioned yet. Namely, a supportive state legislature. I'm not sure if there is an alternative or any other way of developing a thriving entrepreneurial culture with a legislature that reneges on promises to investors.<br />
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My main and original point is that we can and should emulate a culture that promotes entrepreneurial growth. John said:Valley elementary s…tag:www.techhui.com,2010-05-13:1702911:Comment:613522010-05-13T08:40:03.611ZDerekhttp://www.techhui.com/profile/Derek
<cite>John said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.techhui.com/forum/topics/teenage-startupsthey-dont-even?xg_source=activity&id=1702911%3ATopic%3A61309&page=2#1702911Comment61347"><div>Valley elementary schools are advocating entrepreneurship as a result of historical massive success - it did not cause the success nor would the absence of it be a significant constraint on their ongoing success. In Hawaii, even if you had every school advocate and introduce tech entrepreneurship, what…</div>
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<cite>John said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.techhui.com/forum/topics/teenage-startupsthey-dont-even?xg_source=activity&id=1702911%3ATopic%3A61309&page=2#1702911Comment61347"><div>Valley elementary schools are advocating entrepreneurship as a result of historical massive success - it did not cause the success nor would the absence of it be a significant constraint on their ongoing success. In Hawaii, even if you had every school advocate and introduce tech entrepreneurship, what would it do? Where would these kids go? To San Jose?<br/> <br/>
What makes the Valley thrive in technology is the critical mass of successful profitable technology companies. This is what motivates schools to teach tech startups. This is what gives people born in Mountain View an 'unfair' advantage.</div>
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Aloha John, I'm glad to see we're not in disagreement. My very first point was indeed, "I think what can be praised and emulated is the entrepreneurial culture of Silicon Valley."<br />
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Is it not the entrepreneurial culture that has helped nurture and grow the "critical mass of successful profitable technology companies?" The same idea with the same t…tag:www.techhui.com,2010-05-13:1702911:Comment:613482010-05-13T05:21:28.909ZJohnhttp://www.techhui.com/profile/John
The same idea with the same talent and drive done in one place can go much farther than another - whether its Mountain View vs Moiliili in technology or Manhattan vs Mountain View for finance. The environment has a major impact.<br />
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However, things like advocating entrepreneurship in grammar or secondary schools is a lagging factor that would provide little benefit for Hawaii's current condition. Valley elementary schools are advocating entrepreneurship as a result of historical massive success -…
The same idea with the same talent and drive done in one place can go much farther than another - whether its Mountain View vs Moiliili in technology or Manhattan vs Mountain View for finance. The environment has a major impact.<br />
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However, things like advocating entrepreneurship in grammar or secondary schools is a lagging factor that would provide little benefit for Hawaii's current condition. Valley elementary schools are advocating entrepreneurship as a result of historical massive success - it did not cause the success nor would the absence of it be a significant constraint on their ongoing success. In Hawaii, even if you had every school advocate and introduce tech entrepreneurship, what would it do? Where would these kids go? To San Jose?<br />
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What makes the Valley thrive in technology is the critical mass of successful profitable technology companies. This is what motivates schools to teach tech startups. This is what gives people born in Mountain View an 'unfair' advantage.<br />
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I understand the local K-12 education system has flaws but it's way down the list of things that are likely to change or is likely to matter in terms of fostering a tech sector (especially in the next 10 - 20 years). We have to do things to build the sector on our own that we can do with our own resources and capabilities.<br />
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<cite>Derek said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.techhui.com/forum/topics/teenage-startupsthey-dont-even?commentId=1702911%3AComment%3A61345&xg_source=msg_com_forum#1702911Comment61345">Maybe so. I tend to think that a good idea, is simply a good idea regardless of where a person comes from. Unfortunately, good marketers can make a bad idea look like a good idea.<br/>
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Where I'm from is a lot closer to Mountain View than Moiliili. If indeed being born in Mountain View rather than Moiliili tends to be more important ... then, should I be glad I was neither born nor raised in Moiliili?</blockquote> John said:Given that you ackn…tag:www.techhui.com,2010-05-13:1702911:Comment:613452010-05-13T03:47:41.730ZDerekhttp://www.techhui.com/profile/Derek
<cite>John said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.techhui.com/forum/topics/teenage-startupsthey-dont-even?xg_source=activity#1702911Comment61333"><div>Given that you acknowledge the impact of the region's culture and school system, why do you stress that this person has an 'innate' drive and ambition?<br></br></div>
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Aloha John. Thank you for your reply and for the opportunity to clarify. When I emphasized Diane's innate drive and ambition, what Dan described above in response is…
<cite>John said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.techhui.com/forum/topics/teenage-startupsthey-dont-even?xg_source=activity#1702911Comment61333"><div>Given that you acknowledge the impact of the region's culture and school system, why do you stress that this person has an 'innate' drive and ambition?<br/></div>
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Aloha John. Thank you for your reply and for the opportunity to clarify. When I emphasized Diane's innate drive and ambition, what Dan described above in response is exactly what I had in mind. Comparisons can be made to both trust-fund teens and non-trust fund teens. Most high-school aged teens do not demonstrate an interest in launching a start-up.<br />
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<cite>Daniel Leuck said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.techhui.com/forum/topics/teenage-startupsthey-dont-even?xg_source=activity#1702911Comment61334"><div>Derek - Those are very interesting insights with regard to how students in Hawaii are steered. I agree that there is nothing wrong with being a worker. There is honor in doing any job that is beneficial to society well, but I don't think high schools should be steering kids to be anything other than strong on the fundamentals.</div>
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Aloha Dan. In regards to being strong on the fundamentals, I don't think we're in disagreement. To clarify my thoughts, I think being strong on the fundamentals should be a mere baseline for high school, but high school education need not be capped at the fundamentals. I don't think an enhanced program that encourages entrepreneurship would steer students away from that. I would imagine that an enhanced program would have pre-requisites where students would need to be strong in the fundamentals before doing anything advanced much like current high school advanced placement classes. Ideally, this would be balanced so as to not create a situation where a school is too narrowly invested in math and science (as cited) by <a href="http://www.techhui.com/forum/topic/listForContributor?user=19hj8nj5h0owk">Kevin</a>.<br />
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<cite>John said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.techhui.com/forum/topics/teenage-startupsthey-dont-even?xg_source=activity#1702911Comment61333"><div>Many Silicon Valley execs would be club promoters or real estate agents in Honolulu (and vice versa). Being born in Mountain View rather than Moiliili tends to be more important than one's innate abilities.</div>
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Maybe so. I tend to think that a good idea, is simply a good idea regardless of where a person comes from. Unfortunately, good marketers can make a bad idea look like a good idea.<br />
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Where I'm from is a lot closer to Mountain View than Moiliili. If indeed being born in Mountain View rather than Moiliili tends to be more important ... then, should I be glad I was neither born nor raised in Moiliili? Derek, I think you were being…tag:www.techhui.com,2010-05-12:1702911:Comment:613402010-05-12T22:56:49.194ZKevin Folanhttp://www.techhui.com/profile/KevniFolan
Derek, I think you were being facetious but that is a very good point.<br />
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We moved to Hawaii to flee the bizarre San Francisco School District lottery system. We contemplated the usual SF parental "exit strategies": Cupertino, Palo Alto, Mill Valley. Even for smart kids, though, we weren't sure about how well-rounded an experience possible in the Cupertino and Palo Alto districts.<br />
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While I am not thrilled to pay for private school in Hawaii, I do believe it is a good value.<br />
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From the WSJ…
Derek, I think you were being facetious but that is a very good point.<br />
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We moved to Hawaii to flee the bizarre San Francisco School District lottery system. We contemplated the usual SF parental "exit strategies": Cupertino, Palo Alto, Mill Valley. Even for smart kids, though, we weren't sure about how well-rounded an experience possible in the Cupertino and Palo Alto districts.<br />
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While I am not thrilled to pay for private school in Hawaii, I do believe it is a good value.<br />
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From the WSJ<br />
<a href="http://wsjclassroom.com/teen/teencenter/05nov_whiteflight.htm" target="_blank">The New White Flight: In Silicon Valley, two high schools with outstanding academic reputations are losing white students as Asian students move in. Why?</a><br />
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And LA Times<br />
<a href="http://articles.latimes.com/2009/oct/30/local/me-student-suicides30" target="_blank">Palo Alto campus searches for healing after suicides<br />
Since May, four students at Henry Gunn High School have taken their own lives at a nearby railroad crossing. Classmates have started using notes of affirmation and blog posts to try to restore hope</a>.<br />
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<cite>Derek said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.techhui.com/forum/topics/teenage-startupsthey-dont-even?xg_source=activity#1702911Comment61323"><div>I never felt so inadequate.</div>
</blockquote> My criticism is of:
- Fundin…tag:www.techhui.com,2010-05-12:1702911:Comment:613382010-05-12T21:20:34.041ZJohnhttp://www.techhui.com/profile/John
My criticism is of:<br />
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- Funding companies based on nepotism<br />
- Building companies where the founders are non-technical<br />
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The probability of failure for this is extremely high and amounts to a rich man's hobby.<br />
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I am not defending Hawaii's schools in any way. I am simply saying that if the goal is to emulate the lead example in this article, it will not help Hawaii.<br />
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I cannot change Hawaii's school system. However, my company is growing and I can hire young people. To that end, I plan to hire 2…
My criticism is of:<br />
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- Funding companies based on nepotism<br />
- Building companies where the founders are non-technical<br />
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The probability of failure for this is extremely high and amounts to a rich man's hobby.<br />
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I am not defending Hawaii's schools in any way. I am simply saying that if the goal is to emulate the lead example in this article, it will not help Hawaii.<br />
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I cannot change Hawaii's school system. However, my company is growing and I can hire young people. To that end, I plan to hire 2 local engineers out of school this summer and I can at least help give them an opportunity to learn more first hand in our <i>profitable</i> startup. WOW!!! I am blown away by Joh…tag:www.techhui.com,2010-05-12:1702911:Comment:613372010-05-12T21:07:04.819ZBarry Weinmanhttp://www.techhui.com/profile/BarryWeinman
WOW!!! I am blown away by John's criticism of a high school that encourages innovation and entrepreneurial behavior and a young student who tries to be entrepreneurial. I love Hawaii but the K-12system is focused on benefiting the bureaucrats at DOE and union leaders---students come last. Ask any parent....<br />
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Silicon Valley has very few private schools---most high achievers go to public schools. The private sector is the engine of wealth creation---it should be revered---especially by those in…
WOW!!! I am blown away by John's criticism of a high school that encourages innovation and entrepreneurial behavior and a young student who tries to be entrepreneurial. I love Hawaii but the K-12system is focused on benefiting the bureaucrats at DOE and union leaders---students come last. Ask any parent....<br />
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Silicon Valley has very few private schools---most high achievers go to public schools. The private sector is the engine of wealth creation---it should be revered---especially by those in the public sector which are wealth consumers and wealth destroyers.<br />
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If John is happy with Hawaii K-1, 2 well it is what is...good luck. In the Valley, being a founde…tag:www.techhui.com,2010-05-12:1702911:Comment:613362010-05-12T21:02:16.410ZJohnhttp://www.techhui.com/profile/John
In the Valley, being a founder is a status symbol, just like having a fancy car is in Hawaii. From what I see, it's two rich kids hiring a programmer to do the work for them while the VC kids get covered on tech blogs and conferences. Well worth $100k for that social circle.<br />
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Dan, do you think this is likely to be a 'viable company'? Do you really think that this application needs $100k in funding at such an early stage? I have a lot of respect for the Valley but it's for their many real…
In the Valley, being a founder is a status symbol, just like having a fancy car is in Hawaii. From what I see, it's two rich kids hiring a programmer to do the work for them while the VC kids get covered on tech blogs and conferences. Well worth $100k for that social circle.<br />
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Dan, do you think this is likely to be a 'viable company'? Do you really think that this application needs $100k in funding at such an early stage? I have a lot of respect for the Valley but it's for their many real developers, not people playing 'entrepreneur'. Derek - Those are very intere…tag:www.techhui.com,2010-05-12:1702911:Comment:613342010-05-12T20:04:38.081ZDaniel Leuckhttp://www.techhui.com/profile/dleuck
Derek - Those are very interesting insights with regard to how students in Hawaii are steered. I agree that there is nothing wrong with being a worker. There is honor in doing any job that is beneficial to society well, but I don't think high schools should be steering kids to be anything other than strong on the fundamentals. Their ambition, ability and the market will dictate the path they follow after high school. What I'm concerned about is what even an ambitious student can do with only…
Derek - Those are very interesting insights with regard to how students in Hawaii are steered. I agree that there is nothing wrong with being a worker. There is honor in doing any job that is beneficial to society well, but I don't think high schools should be steering kids to be anything other than strong on the fundamentals. Their ambition, ability and the market will dictate the path they follow after high school. What I'm concerned about is what even an ambitious student can do with only 163 days of instruction. The very ambitious will rise regardless of circumstance (we all know successful people who came out of Hawaii's public schools), but the middle will suffer.<br />
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<blockquote>John: Given that you acknowledge the impact of the region's culture and school system, why do you stress that this person has an 'innate' drive and ambition?</blockquote>
I agree with most of your comments (as I usually do), but I'm with Derek on this one. There are many more wealthy kids that take dad's money and waste it on fancy cars and parties than there are those who take $100,000 and turn it into a viable company or, in the case of Gurbaksh Chahal, a $40M company. Even with access to capital, the overwhelming majority of tech companies fail.<br />
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<blockquote>John: Please, let's encourage people in Hawaii to become real technologists - not marketing people.</blockquote>
I agree with you, and I think in the software space your model will become favored over the VC model for many types of businesses. That being said, every technologist can't do what you are doing. We've had enough conversations for me to know you are adept at tech <i>and</i> marketing. Given that you acknowledge th…tag:www.techhui.com,2010-05-12:1702911:Comment:613332010-05-12T18:52:24.549ZJohnhttp://www.techhui.com/profile/John
Given that you acknowledge the impact of the region's culture and school system, why do you stress that this person has an 'innate' drive and ambition?<br />
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Having lived in both places, a lot of the individual success is accidental. Many Silicon Valley execs would be club promoters or real estate agents in Honolulu (and vice versa). Being born in Mountain View rather than Moiliili tends to be more important than one's innate abilities.<br />
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That being said, I definitely acknowledge the stronger…
Given that you acknowledge the impact of the region's culture and school system, why do you stress that this person has an 'innate' drive and ambition?<br />
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Having lived in both places, a lot of the individual success is accidental. Many Silicon Valley execs would be club promoters or real estate agents in Honolulu (and vice versa). Being born in Mountain View rather than Moiliili tends to be more important than one's innate abilities.<br />
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That being said, I definitely acknowledge the stronger environment for entrepreneurship in the Valley. However, the person in the article is an example of decay or excess in the valley. Please, let's encourage people in Hawaii to become real technologists - not marketing people getting hand-outs from dad.